Curse

Flash Dilithium · Apr 13, 2012, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

If you don't mind post a 180 sec DPS vs Master of Damage?

I don't have the software to record a video nor the computer to support it. I am using a 6-year-old laptop. fml

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

If you are saying that that build is good enough to replace the current established damage dealers (100b/VOS/etc) in PVE, you are going to have to show and prove. Cuz I don't see it.

Put skills on skill bar. Walk into GToB. Target Master of Damage. Use skills on skill bar. Compare the findings to other builds you've used in the past. Stop being lazy. For me, he goes down in 5 seconds and all the damage is completely sustainable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DokkyDok

Doesn't compare to what the ranger can do in the frontline

...Which doesn't compare to what A/W/D can do in the frontline.

The GvG version of the build did much more damage than the standard froneline warrior of its time. The version I posted is vastly superior to that due to the perma IAS and additional damage from the shout. This build doesn't have the encumbrance of having to be in melee ranger which means it can swap targets on the fly. Your analysis of the build is simply ignorant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

If this is "the best DPS a ranger can do" thread, then congrats. But it's not a new build. If this is a we can replace other damage dealers, I'm still not seeing it. So show me.

This thread is about replacing other damage dealers, so to speak. An SoS Ritualist does do more damage than the Turret Ranger. I'm not here to argue that. However, you can only have one of those in your party. AoE damage is nice, but you are gimping yourself if that is all you are taking. What you need is balance and this Ranger bar provides extremely high single target damage allowing you to finish off important enemies first as well as hang back out of the line of fire. Because Monk prots are so strong, it is beneficial to condense damage onto a few party members, rather than spread the damage out amongst everyone, and having ranged damage dealers helps you do that. The Turret Ranger is one of, if not outright, the best at accomplishing that goal.

You are comparing apples to oranges whether you want to admit it or not. All damage dealers (DPS) are not created equally. I don't mean some are "better" than others. I mean they serve different purposes and can benefit eachother in very different ways. Think about it. This build, besides doing a bunch of damage, has a very high attack rate. If you bring an SS necro for AoE damage, and load barbs and mark of pain on the bar, the ranger can compliment the necro's damage output by using high rates of physical damage - far higher than any melee profession other than possibly assassin. However, the assassin presents problems the ranger doesn't. It's melee, which means it's taking more damage, can be kited, and has to run between targets to attack them which severely limits its DPS beyond any statistical analysis you may perform.

This is just one of many examples of why comparing DPS characters with eachother is a practice in futility. The whole point of the thread is to show that Rangers have extremely high value to a PvE group if the player equips himself properly and executes his bar efficiently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

Why R/Rt for a res when you could just as easily run R/W and take SY? I do cycle a prep shot bar very similar to this and it does work quite well OP.

I think it's better on a paragon or AoB Dervish because they gain adrenaline faster. You certainly can though. I also prefer to have res because I'm trained from GvG to res quickly and most PvE players fail to do so... even monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

No. Just No. Horrible skill choices here.

Needs EBSoH (+15 Damage). Needs Conjure (+15 Damage). Read the Wind is much worse than either glass arrows (10 more damage) or Ignite Arrows (15-20 more damage and AoE). So thats 50 damage per shot less you are doing than a real turret ranger.

Let's start by understanding that I have 14 in expertise so that I can maintain energy to sustain a super high attack rate and spam attack skills on recharge. Now let's examine your ignorant suggestions.

EBSoH costs 10 energy to cast and is uneffected by expertise.
For Conjure to do +15 damage, you would have to devote 10 attribute points into an elemental as well as 10 energy uneffected by expertise to cast.
Glass Arrows would remove Prepaired Shot, the builds main energy source, rendering it completely useless.
For Ignite arraows to do 15-20 damage, you would have to devote 12-17 attribute points to wilderness survival (which isn't even POSSIBLE!!!)

ogre_jd · Apr 13, 2012, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

No. Just No. Horrible skill choices here.

Needs EBSoH (+15 Damage). Needs Conjure (+15 Damage). Read the Wind is much worse than either glass arrows (10 more damage) or Ignite Arrows (15-20 more damage and AoE). So thats 50 damage per shot less you are doing than a real turret ranger.

Then you need to take Triple Shot because it's supposed to be the rape button for turret builds.

Actually, it's not such a bad build. Ran it for a while today while doing Hogni Truthseeker's quests for the Norn blessings (Normal Mode, though; no idea how it'd perform in HM). Did rather good damage (single-target, natch) and had no energy problems whatsoever, thanks to Prepared Shot (the use of which leaves out Glass Arrows). Read the Wind isn't so much for the bonus damage as for reducing Strays and Dodges to virtually nil.

Triple Shot's (and Dual Shot's) recharge time make them rather meh, even with Ignite Arrows (which is what gives them their potency) since you get so few shots off, at least in my experience. Plus you really need to ball up your foes to take advantage of Ignite Arrows, which is rather difficult to do with Heroes.

(ran an Incendiary Arrows + Triple & Dual Shot + Ignite Arrows build for a couple of months and I find I prefer this, though I swapped out the /Rt & Death Pact Signet and Drunken Master for Frenzy and SY! 'cos I hate the signet and all my booze goes to my main)

Gabs88 · Apr 13, 2012, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Dilithium

I don't have the software to record a video nor the computer to support it. I am using a 6-year-old laptop. fml

Don't need software, he says in team chat. Go Great Temple of Balthazar and through the portal there. Find him by going to the right..

Flash Dilithium · Apr 13, 2012, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre jd

Actually, it's not such a bad build. Ran it for a while today while doing Hogni Truthseeker's quests for the Norn blessings (Normal Mode, though; no idea how it'd perform in HM).

First I want to say thank you for trying the build before posting an opinion on it. That seems to be a rarity on this forum and I appreciate your informed comment.
Secondly, I think the build does even better in hard mode because the two main attack skills that you spam have armor penetration which is very valuable in HM. I use it in HM and I hit for 80+ damage on standard enemies with Sundering Attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre jd

though I swapped out the /Rt & Death Pact Signet and Drunken Master for Frenzy and SY!

That's a really good variant. My only issue is you have no cancel stance for frenzy. If you start getting attacked, you're kind of SOL. Were you able to maintain SY with any regularity? I usually run SY on a paragon or AoB dervish due to higher adrenaline gain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

Don't need software, he says in team chat.

Oh... I thought you wanted me to make a video of it... lol

Gabs88 · Apr 13, 2012, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Dilithium

Oh... I thought you wanted me to make a video of it... lol

Screenshot is more then plenty to determine whether or not the build has any merit at all.

Flash Dilithium · Apr 13, 2012, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

Screenshot is more then plenty to determine whether or not the build has any merit at all.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I ran out of booz and my deldrimor title has much to be desired so my attack rate was only increased by 12% for this trial. It's still not terrible.

Gabs88 · Apr 13, 2012, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Judging by that, it's a decent bow build. But nothing more. Especially when taking in to concideration you need IATS to do it.

loopysnoopy · Apr 13, 2012, 09:04 AM // 09:04

In post 13 I showed you a build of glass arrows. I did a fast test against the master of damage for 33 seconds not as long as you did. I averaged 80 damage every 5 seconds.
did not have my shortbow equipped tho

Not sure if damage is on par with yours or not but I only bothered using 2 attack skills

also you quoted me saying why ranger/ritu in post 21 I didnt it was the guy under me

Btw I believe if this thread stays as is we may find some better uttlity for the ranger instead of barrage and SoS spamming and dagger spamming and 100b spamming a ranger isn't front line

while barrage is good it has major draw backs.

Gabs88 · Apr 13, 2012, 10:21 AM // 10:21

From 52-60 DPS on this.

But comparing it to a melee it's still completely worthless.

No AOE, no strength of Honor, no easily available and long lasting IAS. Worthless.

loopysnoopy · Apr 13, 2012, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

But comparing it to a melee it's still completely worthless.
.

Stop comparing it to melee as they are 2 different class mechanics .A ranger class is RANGED, A melee class is FRONT LINED/CLOSE RANGED see the difference. Well I do the damage will never be as powerful as melee but we can get it close enough so if you can't see the difference stop trolling in this thread

PS if your using a hornbow the damage will be meh

Gabs88 · Apr 13, 2012, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopysnoopy

Stop comparing it to melee as they are 2 different class mechanics .A ranger class is RANGED, A melee class is FRONT LINED/CLOSE RANGED see the difference. Well I do the damage will never be as powerful as melee but we can get it close enough so if you can't see the difference stop trolling in this thread

PS if your using a hornbow the damage will be meh

I'm comparing apples with apples, both builds are fighting for the same spot in a 8 man team. I could also compare with a ranged if thats what you mean? And that's using all AoE skills. Now if you want to argue I can't use splinter weapon with that be my guest, but then you're competing with the melee builds again.

It's a flatbow im using, not hornbow, damage would be better with Hornbow. At least in PVE.

loopysnoopy · Apr 13, 2012, 11:23 AM // 11:23

@Gabbs I think you are missing my point yes an ele will out do a ranger compare the rangers meta build which I believe is barrage or enrage not a pvx fan here but comparing apples with apples try comparing the same apples not a green apple and a red apple try ranger vs ranger.
I don't understand why people are struggling to pug with rangers any Z-quest I get in fine with my ranger running single target dps same with UW runs and FoW even DoA.

The ranger is a toolbox class but on its own its damage will be mediocre compared to every class that's been ramped up in scale but that doesn't go with out saying the ranger class with ranger only skills are meh

Flash Dilithium · Apr 13, 2012, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopysnoopy

Not sure if damage is on par with yours or not but I only bothered using 2 attack skills

My build does significantly more damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs

From 52-60 DPS on this.

Your trial time is far too low. I was able to achieve a much higher DPS with my build if I only took into account the first 20 seconds. If you are so willing to test a bunch of your builds, why not just test the turret build too?

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Inflating DPS numbers by reducing trial time is FUN!!!

ogre_jd · Apr 13, 2012, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Dilithium

That's a really good variant. My only issue is you have no cancel stance for frenzy. If you start getting attacked, you're kind of SOL. Were you able to maintain SY with any regularity? I usually run SY on a paragon or AoB dervish due to higher adrenaline gain.

Nah. I find I don't need a cancel stance as a Ranger. If my Ranger gets targeted enough to matter, it's almost certainly too late, anyways.

As for SY!, no. Coverage was spotty. I mainly had it in 'cos I had a slot free because I was going to Hogni for the first time and didn't have IATS. :P

However, I've modified it this morning and will be going with the following for a while, I think:

Prepared Shot (The description makes it seem so bland, but once I actually started using it, it was great)
Penetrating Attack (I can never remember - does Sundering on the bow stack with these? If so, I think I'd better find a string...)
Sundering Attack
Hunter's Shot (Eh. Only in because I can't think of anything better to put in at the moment; it's just not been good since they removed its +damage)
Frenzy
Read the Wind
I Am The Strongest
Antidote Signet (Rarely used, but I hate blindness... Would be Sprint or Storm Chaser, but I don't need IMS during combat and almost always have a /P with Fall Back handy)

loopysnoopy · Apr 13, 2012, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Dilithium

My build does significantly more damage.

Taking into account I only used 2 attacks skills I think if I looked hard enough I can achieve a higher result mind you I only tried it for 33 seconds

And not as long as you did as I don't see any point

Gabs88 · Apr 13, 2012, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Dilithium

Inflating DPS numbers by reducing trial time is FUN!!!

You do it by abusing IATS though, that adds almost 20 DPS by itself over 17 sec. Big difference from my build which can maintain the same DPS indefinitely except for the 2 seconds to recast glass arrows now and then. I only had one with screenshot and a ton without, and all ranged from 52-60 DPS. Add IATS without precharge and you get an additional 10 DPS stable.

And simply put, it doesn't matter because this is far from enough to warrant a spot for a ranger at all.

Aldric · Apr 13, 2012, 05:10 PM // 17:10

I've ran turret builds alot, not because they are particularly good but mainly because sometimes I just like using my shiney bows.

60 DPS from a bow build is much as expected and in comparison to most other classes thats very meh. Take a spear/pet and get 80-85 instead and still at range or just go melee and rip shit up.

IATS only adds 160 damage per 20 secs or 8DPS so i always tended to run EBSoH which i found was very much more powerful/party friendly

Haven't played much in recent months, are secondary scythe builds up to much anymore? They used to have ridiculous dps in comparison to bows

DRGN · Apr 13, 2012, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldric

I've ran turret builds alot, not because they are particularly good but mainly because sometimes I just like using my shiney bows.

60 DPS from a bow build is much as expected and in comparison to most other classes thats very meh. Take a spear/pet and get 80-85 instead and still at range or just go melee and rip shit up.

IATS only adds 160 damage per 20 secs or 8DPS so i always tended to run EBSoH which i found was very much more powerful/party friendly

Haven't played much in recent months, are secondary scythe builds up to much anymore? They used to have ridiculous dps in comparison to bows

As far as I can tell the Derv overhaul + scythe crit nerf made them far less common.

I still don't see how you've(the OP) come close to proving your assertion that this is "extremely overpowered" after having tested this at MoD myself as you suggested(thankfully Prepared Shot was an easy cap lol). The pros that you mention are really questionable. Barbs is generally a meh skill, especially on heroes, because you can just murder the shit out of everything before Barbs becomes worthwhile for its 2 second cast. You're also emphasizing Mark of Pain synergizing with a ranged character and saying melee characters have their problems...how exactly do you intend to ball things for MoP? Also, it's not just the Assassin. Whirlwind Attack + Hundred Blades + SaMS Wars or VoS Dervs can't trigger MoP a shitload of times really fast and hell, a normal Dervish can blow stuff up fine without needing MoP.

Yes, the turret ranger was disgusting in its time. The turret ranger never had to compete with AP and PvE skills on overpowered casters for a ranged character slot in a GvG spike build. All this thread did was make me realize turrets shit out LESS damage than I remember.

Kunder · Apr 13, 2012, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Dilithium

Let's start by understanding that I have 14 in expertise so that I can maintain energy to sustain a super high attack rate and spam attack skills on recharge. Now let's examine your ignorant suggestions.

EBSoH costs 10 energy to cast and is uneffected by expertise.
For Conjure to do +15 damage, you would have to devote 10 attribute points into an elemental as well as 10 energy uneffected by expertise to cast.
Glass Arrows would remove Prepaired Shot, the builds main energy source, rendering it completely useless.
For Ignite arraows to do 15-20 damage, you would have to devote 12-17 attribute points to wilderness survival (which isn't even POSSIBLE!!!)

So thats 50 ignorant points more you have gained by posting a stupid comment which clearly wasn't thought out at all. Thanks for wasting my time thinking about it.

The build I refer to does 80 DPS without even using attack skills (100-110 damage per shot @ 33% ias, though this includes IATS which is not legit) and uses almost no energy. If you are willing to use Drunken Master (I'm not) you even have a free elite slot to put IA in for AoE usage.

Flash Dilithium · Apr 13, 2012, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRGN

You're also emphasizing Mark of Pain synergizing with a ranged character and saying melee characters have their problems...how exactly do you intend to ball things for MoP? Also, it's not just the Assassin. Whirlwind Attack + Hundred Blades + SaMS Wars or VoS Dervs can't trigger MoP a shitload of times really fast and hell, a normal Dervish can blow stuff up fine without needing MoP.

Yes, the turret ranger was disgusting in its time. The turret ranger never had to compete with AP and PvE skills on overpowered casters for a ranged character slot in a GvG spike build. All this thread did was make me realize turrets shit out LESS damage than I remember.

The Turret Ranger isn't designed to replace all of a teams melee. When given the option to take 3 melee professions or 2 melee and 1 turrent ranger, the latter is better than the former. That's the whole point. It condenses opponent damage on fewer people as well as supplying ranged physical damage that rivals that of melee professions. It also worth noting tha the build is better in HM than in NM due to the armor pen of the attack skills. You people seem to believe that I'm saying this ranger bar is supposed to replace ALL melee or ALL AoE. That's absurd and a straw man argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopysnoopy

Taking into account I only used 2 attacks skills I think if I looked hard enough I can achieve a higher result mind you I only tried it for 33 seconds

I don't think you could.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

You do it by abusing IATS though, that adds almost 20 DPS by itself over 17 sec

it's a skill in the game. You can't fault me for using good skills.